by Jean Roberta
(10/20/04)
Sacred Exchange is an unusual anthology of twenty-two stories focused on the spiritual aspects of Dominance/submission, SM, or leather eroticism. The two editors had never undertaken such a project before, and to this day, they have never met in the real world.
The editors, Lisabet Sarai and Seneca Mayfair, agreed to talk to Jean Roberta about their journey from an exchange of ideas to a book published by a major publisher, Avalon Publishing Group, under one of its imprints.
JR: How did you come up with the idea for the anthology Sacred Exchange?
LS: Seneca and I had met online, and appreciated each other's D/s-oriented fiction. Seneca broached the idea of doing an anthology on D/s and spirituality together.
SM: When I contacted Lisabet, the man who was my dominant at the time had a spiritual approach to BDSM. He's a master in one of the martial arts and a student of qi gong, and he brought his experience in Asian mysticism to the BDSM union he had with me. I'd also found that many people into BDSM are into alternative spiritualities, and this fascinated me. I wanted to read fictional stories about these experiences, so we put a book together.
LS: I had always felt that sexuality and spirituality were closely entwined in my personal history. So the theme immediately grabbed me.
JR: Sacred Exchange is dedicated to your Significant Others. Do you both identify as submissive women in relationships with Dominant men?
LS: I have been happily married for more than twenty years to a man who has zero interest in D/s. At the same time, I have a tempestuous but intense long-distance relationship with my Master, whom I have known even longer than my husband.
In general, I don't like labels, and I don't label myself. My experiences as a submissive have been all too limited, but incredibly fulfilling. On the other hand, I sense that I have some leanings toward dominance as well.
SM: I'm no longer with the person to whom I dedicated the book. He was very influential in my growth, and I remain grateful to him for that.
I identify as a sexually submissive woman. This forms the core of who I am in relation to any significant other. I don't relate to all dominant men and women submissively. I do, however, find an emotional and intellectual satisfaction in submitting to a dominant, not to mention a great deal of physical pleasure.
JR: Did your Significant Others have an influence on the book?
LS: I would never have started writing BDSM erotica if it were not for my experiences with my Master.
SM: He wasn't directly involved in either my writing or the anthology, although he was very encouraging.
JR: Sacred Exchange focuses on the spirituality of BDSM to a greater extent than most BDSM fiction which is marketed as "porn." How do you both define your spirituality?
LS: I believe that the material world emanates, in some sense, from a spiritual core, and that imagination and desire can alter "reality." Sometimes I think that we are all shards of the Mind of God (whatever that means), and that the communion one can experience through D/s or other transformational activities is simply a conscious merging of these fragments.
I come from a Jewish background, but I have always been fascinated by spiritual ideas from all faiths. And I find many religious themes echoed in D/s: surrender to a higher power, non-resistance, the primacy of trust, the quest for perfection, purity of devotion to the One to whom you willingly submit.
SM: My own spirituality? I'm a gardener. I believe in process, appreciating the moment, and in planting the right plant in the right place at the right time.
At the time we were putting together Sacred Exchange, though, I had a very sort of "Way of Perfection" attitude toward spirituality and toward D/s unions. It was a hard way of serious self-discipline, and I thought that if I succeeded on that path under the direction of my then Master/Guru, then maybe I too would eventually be pierced by a golden spear and fall into an erotic trance that would last forever. But I went to Mystics Anonymous...and I'm all better now.
The reality of what transpires between a dominant and a submissive in an intense session is so much more than just endorphins being released, and more than some psychological game. That indefinable beauty that happens between two people in a session colors the entire union. It's blood and guts and gore, and it's the knowledge that it's real that you take away with you. My lover leaves marks on my breast that take a week to heal. I look down at the discoloration, and that's real, and I love it. That's what makes what transpires sacred -- it's reality, it's here and now.
A friend of mine who is dominant put it this way, "It is, in fact, not about endorphins and all that shit, it is about sex and being an alive sexual human and it is wet and dirty and nasty and wonderful. What can be better than your pussy gushing and your hips moving and wanting more and more?"
I think this glimpse into a moment of reality is what many of the other authors in Sacred Exchange wrote about. In that sense, I'm much more closely aligned with what they wrote, rather than what I wrote in my story, "White Coyote." "White Coyote" is the story of a woman's struggle to submit to something more than herself, something that she only glimpses but doesn't understand. For many of the other authors in the anthology, the struggle is over, and the moment simply is. It's why I especially love those stories that seem the harshest. I think they may be the truest.
LS: The impact of D/s comes from the fact that you really are there, in the moment, allowing someone else to make you hurt, or bleed, or be so deep into lust that it's close to pain. That you have enough trust in your Master or Mistress to surrender control and everything else: shame, embarrassment, ego, even desire itself.
In eastern religions, in particular, there is the notion that Truth lies in the unvarnished and uninterpreted experience. Mindfulness means, paradoxically, not having anything in your mind but the messages of your senses. A peak scene experience may be a way to reach that place of being. Except of course that it is not a "place" and you cannot "try" to get yourself there. But a skillful and loving dominant can take you there.
JR: There is a spectrum of beliefs about whether sexual orientation and personality in general are biologically or socially determined. Dominance and submission are sometimes associated with male and female roles, which are assumed (by some) to be biologically based.
Where do you stand in the "nature vs. nurture" spectrum?
SM: I say that a little of nature and a little of nurture go into making us who we are.
BDSM unions aren't really different from vanilla gay, lesbian, bi, or straight unions. There are as many approaches to BDSM as there are people involved in it.
What I have heard discussed, though, in terms of nature vs. nurture, is whether or not we are born predisposed to be dominant or submissive. This isn't based on gender.
I think when people bring this up, it's similar to the discussions about whether or not certain guys are born gay or they "become gay." Ultimately, what does it matter? These sorts of arguments are only brought up in the context of discrimination. The religious right still believes that people can be "corrupted" into "becoming gay" and therefore morally debauched, and so the debate is important to them. The people struggling to come to grips with who and what they are sexually sometimes use "I was born this way" as a rationalization. It's a rationalization that is required only because someone else has said you're a pervert if you're gay, lesbian, or love the feel of a leather whip across your flesh. I say we don't need these sorts of rationalizations.
LS: Every human being whom I've ever known has a mixture of stereotypically male and female attributes.
I'd guess that the same is true of dominant versus submissive tendencies. Some people are "naturally" more extreme in one direction than another.
Where do these tendencies come from? I've heard it argued (by my Master, in fact) that childhood experiences with corporal punishment play a major role. On the other hand, I have had submissive fantasies since I was very young, yet I was never beaten or abused in any way.
I don't think it's possible to determine the origins of D/s interests or behavior -- especially when there are as many variants on these interests and behaviors as there are individuals.
One note though: the notion (accurate or not) that some people are "natural" dominants and others are "natural" submissives is a commonly-exploited theme in BDSM literature. There's nothing more thrilling than to be told by your Master, "You were made to be my slave..." Even if it's all hogwash!
JR: Are either of you involved in political activism? Do you identify as feminists?
SM: I define myself as a feminist, yet many feminists decry who I am.
Feminism is something that is as much a part of who I am as is my sexual identity. It's not simply about equal rights, but it's about honoring the feminine and living that honor each day. I live my activism, and am involved when and where I see it is necessary to be so involved.
LS: I wouldn't have the guts to be submissive if I weren't a feminist (third generation!). Every human being has the right to control his or her own body, not to mention his or her own mind. I will fight for those rights, for myself and for others.
I've had feminists react negatively to my BDSM writing, equating it with "violence against women." My reaction is "Did you really read what I wrote?"
I think that to some extent, this reaction by some sectors of the feminist community is based on fear.
Women who have experienced real violence (and of course there are many) will naturally be wary of anything that looks, on the surface, like a threat. It's difficult for these women to vicariously experience enough of a D/s story to be able to determine whether the hurt really is a threat. It seems inconceivable to them that giving power to a man, including the power to cause you pain, could be a transcendent, healing, growing experience rather than a trauma.
I think that there's a need for education here. Broader availability of responsible D/s literature might help clarify the difference between a D/s scene and rape.
SM: I disagree. I never really expect anyone who doesn't love to beat or to be beaten to ever "get it." I don't see why they should get it. It doesn't matter. What matters is that if my interaction with my lover is consensual, then it's no one else's business. I think we need tolerance, not understanding. Tolerance can be legislated, understanding can't.
Lots of us who practice BDSM are well-respected members of our communities. We tend to be a well-educated group, and a successful one. We know the difference between right and wrong, and between yes and no.
I won't justify my sexual preferences to others. I don't have to do so, and I certainly don't have to try and educate them to understand me. It's not going to work in any event. All I ask for is tolerance.
