by William Dean
(11/03/04)
Clean Sheets (CS): As your alternative persona, Lisette Ashton, you've written some two dozen novels, mostly featuring domination and punishment, as well as sexual romps. What do you think are the aphrodisiac qualities of corporal punishment (spankings, caning, humiliation) that keep people coming back for more?
Ashley Lister (AL): You can't beat a good spanking, can you?
Personally, I think the appeal of spanking, caning, and humiliation is the inherent naughtiness. There's an allure to doing anything that seems rebellious to society's usual norms. I suppose it's the secret pleasure that comes from breaking rules or going against conformity. I'd compare it to the same guilty pleasures that we associate with cream cakes, alcohol, or chocolate. Spanking has the added benefit that it can be very pleasurable and doesn't come with so many calories.
Also, a strong corporal punishment (CP) story can often surprise the reader with its variety and its abilities to stretch boundaries. Vanilla romps can be very entertaining, but CP has a pleasantly dark edge that I find more engaging. If the story's being told with any degree of credibility, it can be a lot of fun to watch the heroine being tossed from one dilemma to another.
And even if a reader hasn't yet found the opportunity to physically indulge this vice, the voyeuristic pleasure of reading about spanking can be equally satisfying.
CS: Let's get specific here. What is it about being spanked that seems to turn women (and some men) on? Is it just the extra relish of "feeling naughty" or some rough handling of the naked buttocks so close to the genitals?
AL: I've talked to friends and enthusiasts and come away with the idea that it's a combination of factors.
A close friend suggests it's related to our most basic animalistic instincts and dates back to the times of the cavemen. She said the more uninhibited we become, the more we give these urges their own freedom. Which makes sense to me.
And I do think part of it is the rough handling: the spreading warmth, and the heightened sensation that comes from crude attention, are all indisputable elements that add to the excitement. But in my opinion, the most powerful part of the equation is the feeling of naughtiness.
Spanking remains a taboo subject and personal involvement is seldom discussed. In polite conversation we can all acknowledge our participation in conventional sex acts, but CP borders on a dark gray area.
For a man to admit that he enjoys administering a spanking is too easily misconstrued as meaning he's a thuggish misogynist who likes to inflict pain on women. When a woman says she happily submits to consensual discipline, it is all too often seen as a sign that she's easy, or maladjusted, or both. Reverse the sex of either of those roles and the reaction would be even more extreme.
Because it's still considered to be an unsavory perversion no one talks about, the wonderful pleasures that can be obtained. But I think that veil of secrecy adds to the allure of this delightful deviation.
CS: Particularly in fetish erotica, it seems fashion and role-playing or settings are almost the "foreplay" to a good sexual encounter. What do you think are some of the prime "setups" to a good CP scene? And if you were translating one of your book scenes to reality, what would you suggest to role-players for adding some zest to the mix?
AL: The archetypal roles work best, because it's so easy to remember the character you're playing. Schoolgirls and teachers, maids and masters, nurses and doctors, are all easily acquired personas that work very well in the regime of disciplinary role-playing.
And if someone was going to play out any scene from a book, I think there are a lot of ways to add extra spice to the recipe.
Obviously a reader needs to know which element of a scene particularly appealed to them, whether it was the build to the discipline, the suggestion of exhibitionism, the humiliation and shame, or the spanking itself.
From there, they need to work out what additional details would add to their enjoyment. These things do need to be considered beforehand: boundaries need to be set and respected, safe-words should be exchanged, safe sex requirements need to be met, and contingency plans made. But this sort of preparation can be as exciting as the game itself.
Experimenting with different implements is a good way to start: finding a preference between whips, canes, and straps. From there a reader could take things out of doors, introduce a trusted third person, or try swapping roles and finding out what it feels like to wield the crop rather than suffer its sting.
CS: Schoolgirls in uniform and lusty teachers, maids and randy house masters, nurses and hospital administrators; all these seem ready-made roles for a good CP and sex session. Are there some outlandish and radical pairings, with the same result, that you'd like to explore in your erotica writings?
AL: I'm looking into pirates and distressed damsels at the moment. There's something quite raunchy about sea-faring tales. Also, the cat o' nine tails, and all those clever knots that they use aboard ships, seem like ideal tools for a touch of bondage and discipline.
In the past I've tried using artists and models, and I can see there would be scope for a CP relationship between an author and an editor, although I'm not sure which way round that would work best.
CS: What are some of the key ingredients that new CP writers should strive for in writing convincing stories? Are there hard and fast "rules," or do publishers seem to want to branch out with CP into sub-genres, like Science Fiction or Adventure-slash-Thrillers?
AL: For the new CP writer, it must look like editors are asking for the impossible. Calls for submission and writer's guidelines invariably demand something new and original that follows an established and traditional format. They want consensual situations where there is an element of hesitation or reluctance. It seems like the literary equivalent of trying to eat a doughnut without licking your lips.
Add to this the nuisance that editors are only human, and some can allow their personal preferences to dictate their choices, and it would be easy to understand any new writer giving up before they bother to begin.
However, the good news is that editors are always on the lookout for a good, compelling story. Crossing genres can be an effective way of putting a new spin on a CP story, and this is constantly being done by a lot of talented writers. Romantic erotica, historical erotica, and fantasy erotica remain the most popular hybrids but there are a large number of titles out there that now fall into the crossed genre of science fiction erotica.
I suppose the only hard and fast rule to getting a CP story published is to write it to the best of your ability and make sure the right publishing house gets to see it first.
CS: Can you give us some background on the whole CP publishing phenomena in the UK? Who were the originators, and was there, as with many genres, a so-called "golden age," or is it still going on?
AL: Tracing the origins of erotic literature is one hell of an intriguing pastime. So much of the history deals with dubious characters, ludicrous legal wrangles, and twisted morals that it has all the makings of a book in its own right.
Because the publishing of erotica was a fairly clandestine operation, the author "Anonymous" became quite prolific. Also, because many of the early publishing houses that dealt with erotica were often unscrupulous, it wasn't uncommon for a translation of an earlier work (with expired copyright) to be released as a contemporary title. This means it's nearly impossible to work out who was writing what, and influencing whom, with any degree of accuracy.
However, I guess most authorities would argue that the golden age of CP stories is epitomized with Victorian and Edwardian erotica. Titles like Country Retirement (or How to Pass Time Pleasantly in a Manor House), The Whippingham Papers, The New Epicurean (or The Delights of Sex), and Pleasure Bound: Afloat and Ashore, are all fine examples of erotica from those periods. But, while some of these stories can be interesting and entertaining, the language is too formal for my unsophisticated palate.
I think it's fair to say that everything written in the genre nowadays is influenced to some degree by the shadow of those largely anonymous authors. From the characters who subscribed to the ever-popular "Gentlemen's Clubs" of the genre, through to those villainous antagonists who "corrected" their maids: it can all be seen to have been done before.
At Nexus (an imprint of Virgin Books Ltd.), Yolanda Celbridge, Aishling Morgan, and Penny Birch are all powerful exponents of CP literature, but they've brought the Edwardian tradition into the twenty-first century with their compelling style of story-telling. At Chimera Publishing, Ray Gordon and Josephine Scott are well worth the read.
CS: Do you have favorite "bits" or scenes from some of your novels? What are they and why do they appeal to you?
AL: In my novel, Property, the story starts where the heroine is lost in a poker game. I did enjoy writing that scene, partly because I wanted to get her indignation to be credible, so the story was believable, and partly because it seemed like such a cruel way to treat her at the start of the tale.
The BloodLust Chronicles is a trilogy of novels about three sisters facing a coven of sexually sadistic vampires. The first of those had some fun CP elements, where the heroine was being "tutored" in readiness for facing the story's villains. They were a joy to write and, glancing back at the novels now, I still find them fun to revisit.
In my novel, Fairground Attractions, I have a rather wicked female ringmaster wielding her whip over subordinates from the rest of the circus. I like that one because it was a world away from the usual environment of master and submissive, yet it seemed wholly appropriate for the story.
CS: Without giving too much away personally, what are the life passions, apart from writing, that spur you or inspire you?
AL: I spend so much time writing and researching that it's difficult to separate downtime from my writing life. I enjoy watching films, but I spend a lot of time mentally breaking down the plots or contemplating the character structure.
I was/still am a huge fan of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV series, and my son and I usually find an hour or so each week to sit down and watch an episode or two from our collection of DVDs. Those programs embodied masterful storytelling, sensational characters, and the whole product was very stylishly presented.
I do enjoy listening to operas, but so many of them are written with misogynistic undertones that they beg to be transformed into an erotic story, and it's hard work not to think of them in terms of a potential novel.
CS: If someone from the US, or at least outside the UK, wanted to explore their interests in CP on a vacation there, what would you recommend they do? Where should they go and what should they avoid?
AL: Pay me a visit. We'll sort something out.
CS: Finally, what are some of the new projects you're working on? What can we expect soon from the pen of Lisette Ashton?
AL: I've got a couple of projects on the go at the moment. I'm trying to do something with a story idea concerning the Marquis de Sade, and I have a compulsion to write a rather wicked succubus story.
I also think it's time I did something very traditional with a teacher and a naughty student, or maybe a master and a maid. Ultimately I'd love to write a work that was considered the definitive version of the CP novel, and I think that if I ever hope to achieve that, I'd have to return to the genre's most traditional values.
