by William Dean
(12/10/03)
Call me a rebellious academic appreciator, but people who make the Dean's List at two different universities impress me, especially when they go on, as Lori Selke has, to become a sexual activist and top-notch erotica writer/editor.
Maybe you only know Lori from her always eloquent erotic stories in anthologies such as Bitch Goddess, Leatherwomen III, Genderflex, Zaftig, Best Bisexual Erotica, Best Lesbian Erotica, Best SM Erotica, and the just-released Dyke the Halls. She's also edited Tough Girls, Literotica, and The Black Book, 6th Edition. Beyond all these credentials, she's worked at Yes, Portal, Girlfriends Magazine, and On Our Backs, and is Promotional Coordinator for Black Books. As you'll see, she's a knowledgeable, sharp spokesperson for an open-minded sexual philosophy.
CS: Lori, in your opinion, what are the biggest misperceptions people still generally have about the polarity of butch and femme in the lesbian community?
LORI SELKE (LS): One of the biggest misconceptions is that butches are tops and femmes are bottoms -- you know, because masculinity is supposedly active and femininity is passive. (Yeah, right.) I think it's just an unconscious assumption on some people's parts, but some of the nastiest tops I know are femmes through and through.
Some people also still believe that you have to be one or the other, that you can never be a butch/femme switch, that you can never be "none of the above." People who don't fit into the dyad are often very hostile toward it -- probably a legacy of sexism, of feeling forced into inappropriate gender roles.
I see less and less nowadays of the other usual error, that you have to have one of each to form a coherent erotic pairing. Butch-butch play has gained a lot of visibility in the past few years, especially as "bois" have come into their own as an identity. (A boi is a certain type of butch bottom. They play with both femmes and butches, but "daddy-boi" is a special favorite, it seems to me.) I don't see as much acknowledgement of femme-on-femme play, unfortunately -- it's often disparaged, treated as if it's not serious, probably because it reminds people too much of the girl-on-girl scenes in straight porn. I hope to see that change, too.
CS: With the re-issue of Carol Queen's classic The Leather Daddy and The Femme, some vanilla people might be confused about sex and relationships between lesbians and gay men (or straight men). Is society generally still struggling to grasp the complexities of bisexuality? Do we have to label things as either black or white to easily understand them?
LS: Yes, I think that the wider society is still struggling to understand the basics of bisexuality, and it's really not prepared to grasp some of the complexities of, say, dykes playing with gay men, because that just doesn't make sense, does it? My partner identifies most of the time as a gay man, as it happens, and some of the time as an admirer of butchness, although he has a new femme dyke play partner that's causing him to re-examine some of this.
People don't like ambiguity. They don't want to have to deal with conditionals, maybes, and "yes, buts." It's understandable, really, although it's also a pain in the ass for those of us who aren't easily reduced to a convenient category.
But in my own life, I've been very lucky. I don't meet a lot of people these days who don't understand bisexuality, or cross-orientation play (as we used to call dykes and gay men together), or polyamory, another brain-buster for some folks. And I've never had to worry about being invisible as a queer just because I have a male partner, like some mixed-gender bisexual couples do. I'm not very femme, so I don't disappear into societal expectation that way.
CS: A recent question that came up in an erotica writers' forum was, "What about drag kings [women dressing as men]?" I know there are still large groups of drag kings in Boston and areas of New York. What about San Francisco where you live? Has the idea of the drag king become "so last week" or is it still out there?
LS: There are still drag kings out here, although I'm more familiar with the New York performers for some reason. I've gone to a contest or two, and they're always fun.
I don't like the kings that burlesque masculinity, generally; unless it's done with a real sharpness, it seems like a cheap shot. More interesting are the sexy drag kings, who tap into the attractions of masculinity.
There's a lot of overlap, too, between the drag king community and the FtM community. FtMs are certainly not mocking masculinity! Sometimes I think they embrace it a little too unproblematically, in fact. But that's probably my issue more than theirs.
CS: Generally, in your experience, how are transsexuals (MtF) fitting in among lesbians, if at all? Is there resentment or acceptance? Or are many women still "undecided"?
LS: There's more acceptance than there used to be, but still some weirdness. One thing you see sometimes are MtFs who have had sexual reassignment surgery (SRS) trying to keep out MtF genderqueers who have chosen to forgo it. And I do occasionally hear remarks still about how this or that MtF has "male energy" that's somehow disruptive.
But the real issue in lesbian communities these days are FtMs and how they fit in. The Exiles, the women's SM group in San Francisco, has been discussing their policies in this regard intensively for a couple years now. And of course the high-profile transition of Patrick Califia really shook things up. Losing Patrick as a lesbian voice was rough on a lot of leatherdykes, because books like Macho Sluts were so influential and important.
Myself, I don't care so much. I understand the need for women-only space, but I'm OK with that boundary being fuzzy. And I prefer genderqueer space when I can find it -- I like hanging out with people who know that gender is complex and weird and fun to mess around with. That's my tribe.
CS: Something that strikes me as curious is that when, say, the Folsom Fair is covered or Gay Pride parades, the emphasis always seems to be on gay men in leather, despite the fact there must be a large number of lesbians involved. What's up with that, do you think? Do lesbians just keep a lower profile or is there some media agenda at work?
LS: A big part of it is unexamined sexism -- women are invisible, unless they're model-pretty. Though Dykes on Bikes always get a lot of play in Pride coverage, so that's not all of it. The Folsom Street Fair started out as an event for gay leathermen, at least for the most part, so it's not inappropriate for them to receive the lion's share of attention.
I had a "paparazzi moment" at the most recent Folsom -- I was dressed as a sailor boy, and I was packing a dildo. When my partner got down on his knees to suck my "cock," the cameras were flashing!
The fem-doms also seem to get a lot of attention at the Fair, whether they're playing with boys or with girls. So do the drag queens, of course. Maybe we should just give the gay boys some credit for their fabulous, attention-getting fashion sense!
CS: Let's talk about lesbian erotica. Besides yourself, who are some of the hottest new voices and what are they writing that's new, exciting, and seductive?
LS: I love Myriam Gurba's stories. They're so sexy, but they're also moving, and literate, and they come from a place that we don't often get to see in erotic literature. Myriam's writing is often set in the street culture of the Los Angeles Chicano community, but it's so nuanced, infused with a sense of place and character that I can only envy.
Jenn Maer is a woman I've heard read once or twice; she's located here in San Francisco. I hear she just sold her first story. But she blew away the audience when she read for us. Watch for her!
CS: Women-to-women erotica, for a long time, seemed to be separated into either bittersweet romance tales or tough-girl cruising stories. Does there seem, now, to be more of a mix? Is it possible for a tough girl to have romance, too?
LS: I'm not a big fan of romance, to be perfectly honest. When I'm in the throes of a crush, it's different -- then I want to go the whole flowers-and-candles route, but that stage usually lasts about eight weeks and then fades. I can write about romance, but I'm faking it.
But if a tough girl wants romance, why not? Although I must admit that I've read plenty of bittersweet tough-girl romance stories, too. Joan Nestle springs immediately to mind -- and what fine stories they are.
CS: We're seeing lots of genre cross-over lately, it seems, with lesbian SM and lesbian D/S, both in erotic literature and in the porn realm of the Internet and videos. How much, do you think, is fad-of-the-moment fantasy to appeal to men (and women) and how much is based on real relationships in the lesbian community? Is there a way to tell?
LS: Do the girls keep their nails short? Then it's probably real.
I'm being facetious, of course. Remember when I was talking about some people not taking femme-femme relationships very seriously? This is part of why. Femme-femme sex is associated, unfortunately, with lesbianism commodified and intended to be on display for a straight male audience, because that's what straight male porn always shows -- two thin, model-pretty women having gentle sex with each other, with lots of stroking and tongue-kissing. Sex that always seems to involve toys, I've noticed (because girls need a fake dick if they can't have a real one?).
But some of the women who perform girl-on-girl sex for men really like sex with women. Nina Hartley comes to mind immediately as an example. She has a tape out, How To Dominate A Woman. I haven't seen it, but I'd buy it in a second, because I've seen her interact with women, and she's not faking it, not one inch. Also Shar Rednour and Jackie Strano's Sugar High Glitter City had a lot of dom-sub energy to it, and God knows those were genuine dykes having hot, hot sex!
In terms of visual porn -- Internet and videos -- I find that most kinky material, whether or not it's lesbian (or "lesbian"), it's more about the fashion than actual SM interaction as I know it. The SM "scene experience" is very hard to catch on camera, because so much of it is internal, in the participants' heads. It takes a really creative director to capture some of that on screen, and I don't see that very often. The written word is much more likely to satisfy in that particular regard.
CS: Apart from your erotica stories, you have another project, the Web zine Problem Child. What's that all about?
LS: Problem Child is a print zine, not a web zine; I'm a little old-fashioned that way.
I started the zine because I found myself writing less and less erotica. After a while, there are just so many ways bodies fit together, you know? But I still was writing stories with a lot of sexual and kinky content, stuff that was not really suitable for mainstream markets. Because that's a reflection of who I am; my point of view will always be that of a kinky person very much out of step with mainstream culture.
I knew I wasn't the only one writing this kind of stuff, either. And then there was the fact that I also tend to write "slipstream" stories, fiction that might or might not be fantasy or science fiction. So I wanted to establish a place that could accommodate the sort of stuff that fell between the cracks -- the cracks of genre especially.
Because, you know, everything I do ends up between categories. I'm bisexual, I'm a switch, I'm a genderqueer...I give up!
So I snitched Bill Brent's Make A Zine! from work (Bill's my boss), asked my friends for stories, and the rest is history. The second issue should be out by the time you read this.
I want everyone to know, though, that I was actually quite well-behaved as a child, if a little sassy.
CS: Considering your stories and perhaps live readings, what has been your most exciting response from a fan or reader?
LS: I wish I had better fan stories. I've got a lot of compliments, and I've met a few lasting friends, and even a few lovers, from my readings. I have had salacious e-mail sent my way, but she seemed just as excited by my cleavage as by my words, alas.
